Bram A Lecker: Finding Balance within the Law

Changing legislative labour laws, fighting for the rights of non-unionized employees, and running a law practice with over nine specialized lawyers is all in a day's work for one of Toronto's top employment litigators, Bram A. Lecker.

With experience in the legislative, and judicial branches, he has acted as lead or co-counsel at all levels of court, including the Supreme Court of Canada. He also advises corporations, non-profit organizations, and executives on their legal obligations and has active directorships on York Community Credit Counselling and the Economic Club of Toronto.

The Edge spoke with Lecker about finding work-life balance; managing mental health in the legal field; and what entrepreneurship truly entails.

Bram:

My father worked as a, we call it a dependent sales representative for many years, and I remember when, it sounds overly dramatic, but when I was a child coming home very often and he was very honest and very hardworking and every so often I'd come home and it was obvious that there was stress in the home. And it's because he had been either let go after building up a territory, building up sales or they would reduce his commissions or something like that. And I remember that very vividly and that's what drove me when I became a lawyer. I didn't start off being an employment lawyer, but I always wanted to be driven towards that area.

The Edges:

Were they mistreating him as an employee?

Bram:

Yeah, they were treating him as an employee at the time, maybe we're talking about many years ago. At the time, there wasn't a, concept of a dependent contractor. He was actually employed. He was employed by these companies; we call it a dependent commission agent, but he was employed, and the laws in Canada weren't as strong as they are now.

The Edges:

How do you manage your family and running your business at the same time now?

Bram:

Well now it's pretty easy because my children are older. I have three older children; the youngest is 25, but I had, of course, a very good support at home. My wife worked as well, but it was a good team. We raised our children just to balance. I used to make sure that although I worked late hours, I made sure the weekends were available. That was a big rule with me. So as much as I had to work during the week, you can appreciate or you may appreciate if you're preparing for trial, it just consumes you every day. You have to prepare other witnesses and that sort of thing. So I would be up until very late, but on the weekends, I would stop, usually on Fridays and say, now's the time for my family. So that was the balance and you just have to maintain a balance. And I would take holidays as well. I tell the people who work for me, you've just got to take holidays in any high-stress profession.

The Edges:

Were some very high-, I think people have a muchas there a time when the mental health suffered because of the work?

Bram:

No, I wouldn't say that. I just have the ability to shut it out. I mean, there was some very high pressure, stressful situations. Being a litigator, a trial lawyer in and itself is extremely stressful, but you just had coping mechanisms and there's a lot of lawyers, some drink a bit too much and some of them gamble a bit too much. Others buy fast cars. I was just lucky enough, I was able to join my family, a very strong family, parents, grandparents, and was able to basically discharge that way. But no, I wouldn't say so. Although I'm not going to underestimate the fact that a lot of young lawyers, even older lawyers do suffer. There are a lot of facilities available to the law society and the like, and they have to avail themselves of that. In my generation, especially males, it was a lot more of a taboo to seek professional help. But nowadays I think people have a lot healthier attitude about mental health. They'll really seek assistance when necessary. And that goes to a lot of the lawyers too.

The Edges:

What would you say, is there a quality that sets apart a good lawyer from a great lawyer?

Bram:

Yeah, A, the ability to be empathetic. B, the ability to be objective and C, the ability to transfer complicated legal theories into everyday language and into, we used to call, layman's terms. You have to be able to explain the sometimes complicated aspects of the law. It's really no good if you spout theories and cases, and all the rest of it, doesn't mean anything to people. They want, they want a result and they want to understand what their situation is. And the fourth I think is being able to keep them under a constant communication. That's the market of good lawyers. Somebody who's going to basically know that their clients need that communication. They need to hear about the status of the case, what's going on and what their chances are. So I would say that's the difference.

The Edges:

How has COVID-19 affected your business?

Bram:

Yeah, most directly, we had actually just moved into a large premises. I have nine lawyers with me now and about 10 support staff. We just moved into a large premises a couple months before March. I think it's 2019. In the first six months it was practically a ghost town. We were doing everything, and this is surprising to me. We were doing everything and still are with Zoom and on the web, and I was very, very surprised of people's ability or capacity to interact with their lawyers, given the fact that a lot of these situations are very pressing and urgent to them by way of Zoom. So the old school, which I guess I'll admit to being a part of, is that you had to do face-to-face contact with your clients. Zoom is sufficed. I say Zoom, there are a number of other mediums, but Zoom is sufficed. People are trusted. I mean we're using it right now and they're comfortable with it. And that's the major change. Other than that, no, not really. The courts initially were sort of on a hold, suspense, in terms of the timing, but that got shaken out now. It's kind of back to the same schedule. So that's essentially technology and some over-capacity, under-capacity, scheduling issues. Other than that, everything went the same. There are a lot of issues that have arisen out of Covid in particular, but that's something else.

The Edges:

Have any cases that you've worked on changed the way you deal with the practice of law?

Bram:

Yes. I had a very hard fight in the late nineties with a large, let's call it a pulp and paper company, which didn't seem to respect some of their seniors or longstanding employees family values. And we called it the family value case. It's called the Hilton case. And we were, I was proud to say, happy to say we finally managed to get a decision which forced the employer to recognize and respect the family needs of their employees. In this particular case, this guy was a senior foreman at a plant and he was on call with a pager, which he was happy to do. He worked there for over 20 years and the company just insisted on taking all of his time. And that goes back to what I was saying about give me your weeks, but you have your weekends. And they didn't let the guy live and he was an exemplary employee and he finally said to them, I can't do it.

Bring me down the ranks. I'll go in on the assembly line. Hey, can't keep up this schedule and I have to see my family and they fired him. And that had a great impact on me, the fact that the company would even do that, but also it was very satisfying that we were able to, shall we say, turn them around in a very dramatic way. And the case went to the, they lost on two levels and they sought leave from the Supreme Court of Canada and it was refused. So it's a reported decision involving the gentleman's name. My client's name was Hilton. Like the hotel chain.

The Edges:

Legacy is important. What one thing would you want the people you work with to remember after, let's say you retire?

Bram:

My main legacy is the fact my son works with me. He's becoming a real veteran employment lawyer. I sometimes try to emulate his style and wisdom, so he's been doing very well. So that's a legacy in a literal form. But the legacy I'd like people to remember is to treat clients like customers, not like clients. There are too many lawyers. Lawyers aren't trained in law school about business and how to treat their clients, it's sort of like doctors in a bedside manner. They just have to learn over time. And the good ones realize that you can't treat people like names or numbers or just files. You have to treat people, you have to respect them. And in my background, there's no more respect that you'd have for a stranger than treating, seeing them as a customer. And so that's what I try to impart on my staff. It's worked. We get a lot of, if I must say, tell myself here, we get a lot, lot of excellent reviews on Google. And if I find out that one of the staff is not treated a client like a customer, then they hear about it.

The Edges:

What advice would you give to young people who are one, let's say looking to enter the field of law and maybe two who are, let's say, working at a firm but are thinking about maybe starting their own firm? So two different points.

Bram:

There are a lot of people and a lot of young lawyers and myself included to put bread on the table, basically went into general law and did a lot of things like real estate and wills and state work and commercial work. It's a very good background because in my case, employment law touches on all those things including criminal law and family law. And every issue you can think of, but my advice to any young lawyer or anybody entering into practice law think of it is to carve out or pick a specialty for yourself and in particular a specialty where you could see that you're actually helping people because it's very, very fulfilling. I don't want to sound too altruistic, but it really is, that's what gets you through the day, the ability to look back or look around you and see that you've actually helped people get out of a difficult situation in their life.

Employment law is particularly good that way because there's a beginning and an end, and we usually get, without sounding too cliche, we are able to get people from point A to point B relatively successfully and relatively rapidly. So whatever endeavor or area of specialty of law you want to go into, do something where you feel that you can help people and also that you find it interesting and fulfilling. It sounds cliche, but unfortunately there are a lot of people, and this goes to your second part of the question, there's a lot of people working in firms or for institutions or corporations making a really good money, but unfortunately they're not very happy with what they do, and it gets to them after a while, and that's something you have to avoid at all costs. That's basically what I would say.

The Edges:

What was the toughest part about setting up your own firm?

Bram:

In every business, there are two sides. One being the sales and the other being production. You have to the extent you can keep both sides in balance, and if you're a one man shop or one person shop, you have to be able to be proficient in both those areas. Sales know your limitations and know your skills. And if you need to have either hire somebody that you could trust, which is sometimes difficult or have a partner, usually a friend or somebody, that you can share those divisions of responsibility. And I think if you do that, although you may end up earning a little bit less, the reality is you have a much greater chance of success than going on your own.

The Edges:

You talked about making an impact. Was there a particular time or a place where it felt like you're running against a wall or was a very tough case, and when that happened, what did you do to, let's say, breakthrough?

Bram:

There used to be a movie in the sixties. I'm old enough to know though. He was very young, called the Seven Year Itch, and it was actually about marital relationships. But I think that that can translate into jobs. Many people burnout or start getting disillusioned at around five to seven years and in law after five years, you become a veteran lawyer. So when I was doing a lot of general work, so it goes back to what I was saying before, I realized that it was like being in a forest of palm trees and everybody, all the palm trees were the same level and I had to do something to be able to poke my head through and to do that, anything else you have to do. One thing very proficiently. I decided that was the breakthrough, figuratively and literally I decided that even though it was going to mean a little less money and a little bit more risk, I was going to continue to basically market my skills as an employment lawyer and pursue that avenue. So that was really the breakthrough, and it came for myself at seven years.

The Edges:

Okay, solid.

Bram:

It was called an epiphany or call it because it wasn't that brilliant an idea or created an idea, but it was the right time for me. But you got to remember that there's a lot happening at the same time. You're paying for diapers, you're paying for prescriptions for children, your children are young. There's a lot of demands. So it's kind of very easy to go with the thing that's most comfortable and the safest thing, which is get a job somewhere where you're doing all kinds of things that you may not enjoy. So you're stuck with that a little bit, but unfortunately it takes a bit of a risk and it takes a lot of sleepless nights, but you've got to decide to break through and do the best thing. I must say, luckily it worked out for me and most of the people I know who have done the same thing, it's worked out for them as well.

The Edges:

Okay, great answer. If you had one message to give to people for them, let's say just in general to remember about life, what message would that be?

Bram:

Do unto others, as they would have them, as you would have them do unto you. I'm not particularly religious or biblical, but something my dad used to say to me all the time. The measure of how you act to somebody is if you can stop and think is how you would feel if you experienced the same kind of conduct, that would be the message. That's how you measure yourself and balance yourself. Be a conversation, be it work life, be it even in a relationship. Measure what you're doing by how you would feel if that conduct was being directed to you.